Information before Opinion Sufi poetry and Conversation

Questioner: Sufis should do some group classes thing
DaveFromtheBlog: how come?
Questioner: it would be a good outreach if conducted right
DaveFromtheBlog: why do Sufis need Outreach?
Questioner: not that they need it but I think if they did it, it might attract and eliminate some stereotypic stuff
DaveFromtheBlog: Sufis are very different on this. We don’t really care what people think about Sufism or if there are stereotypes. If someone really wants to know the truth of it then they will find out
Questioner: it is not about caring it is about sharing info maybe bring a stronger community and maybe even more members
DaveFromtheBlog: If someone is content reading books about Sufism then there weren’t really after what it really was just to satisfy curiosity. Sufism is an experience, no information to share we don’t worry about more or less members

Questioner: hmmm so resistant to open doors hmmmm
DaveFromtheBlog: are we really?
DaveFromtheBlog: everyone who wants to come is invited and free to ask questions and tons of people come all the time
Questioner: your statement gives off that impression
DaveFromtheBlog: You interpreted my statement in a way that gives that impression

DaveFromtheBlog: I see it all the time many people come ask questions some stay some leave no one is asked to stay
Questioner: A class type of thing is different
DaveFromtheBlog: yeah very different I see it like sex. It sounds odd I’m sure but reading about sex studying the history of its symbols is nothing compared to sex

Questioner: if you stay with it, it might intrigue people to inquire more and might make them want to practice the way
DaveFromtheBlog: we don’t concern ourselves with other people. Nor do we want anyone to practice the way. If someone comes to inquire we answer as best we can their answers. However there are those called to be Sufis of those called some show up, of those that show up only some stay, of those that stay who knows if they become Sufis.

A Question for the Questioner

DaveFromtheBlog: hmm I got a question for you
Questioner: ok
DaveFromtheBlog: What is Sufism to you?
DaveFromtheBlog: what do you see it as?
Questioner: I see it as a faith a way for peeps to become in touch with god or to build relations with Him
DaveFromtheBlog: a faith like, Christianity, Islam, Judaism
Questioner: yep like it but a little different
DaveFromtheBlog: different in what sense just different foundations
DaveFromtheBlog: your being vague homey
Questioner: like Jews based on Abraham and Old Testament, Christians based on Jesus  New Testament, Islam is Koran etc.

DaveFromtheBlog: I see what you are saying
Questioner: Sufi is ummmmm
DaveFromtheBlog: what are we based on then?
DaveFromtheBlog: or is that the mystery you want to figure out, like Nancy Drew though probably she looks better in a dress.

Questioner: I have no clue about Sufi foundation that is why I thought class would be cool
Questioner: like remember when I told you yes I know Rumi and Hafiz but why should I listen to them I think a class introducing the relevance would be awesome
DaveFromtheBlog: You may find this interesting some Sufis and Sufi masters have always said that Sufism existed way before Islam, and that at some point they decided to work through Islam for a while
they were the mystic element of it

Questioner: right so like a small brief historic class of it would be sweet in depths stuff you can read in a book but if like someone of knowledge can conduct certain classes it would be awesome

Questioner: ok let me pose this to you
Questioner: you go into a church you see people make the sign of the cross you know what it means but you want to know from someone why it is done
DaveFromtheBlog: I can always look that up on Wikipedia or Google or the monstrous catholic encyclopedia or some papal bull or writ that’s not why I came to the church

Questioner: I can go witness a Sufi session but it won’t mean I understand it
DaveFromtheBlog: exactly true. But what is your reason for going. That’s what I am wondering about. Because if you are going in the spirit of investigative Journalism ABC news style then…..

Questioner: reason for going is to make connection but if I don’t have the tools I need to be taught. If I go to a Sufi place it is with the hope I can use the energy to channel a connection to the creator but if don’t know how or the origin it is no different that me doing same thing at home

DaveFromtheBlog: interesting
DaveFromtheBlog: so u assume you don’t have a connection to man upstairs with thunderbolts
Questioner: I walk in off street to Sufi place I sit in a group I see certain things you do how I would fit inif I am clueless to origin

DaveFromtheBlog: that’s interesting
DaveFromtheBlog: how come you need to know the origin?
DaveFromtheBlog: Do you don’t need to know the origin of the feelings you get when the girl you like or a tray of your favorite food passes by, providing you still like girls? (good natured joking and expletives follow)

DaveFromtheBlog: of course I get ur point that you personally need some background info or something, otherwise why not go to a church or tattoo parlor or McDonalds or perhaps burger king as you can have it your way there

DaveFromtheBlog: information and books though I must say can take u so far they are good up to a point, but serve a nice purpose of telling u about stuff why things happen

Questioner: right that is why a class is good
DaveFromtheBlog: for that a class would be great for you. Of the many dervishes I know few if any needed a class, or to read books. So for you, you want to know the historical understanding of Sufism. What history can there be for individual experiences of the way. If there is a historical account you can be sure it’s not Sufism. It is an academic understanding of Sufism. How many papers have been written on Ibn Arabi’s Unity of being? They say nothing for experiencing it in your heart.

A garden among the flames!
My heart can take on

Any form:
A meadow for gazelles,
A cloister for monks,
For the idols, sacred ground,

Ka’ba for the circling pilgrim,
the tables for the Torah,
the scrolls of the Qur’an.
My creed is love;

Wherever its caravan turns along the way,
That is my belief,
My faith.

We can take that poem and break it down, bring out pens, but if you can’t feel it what can you really know about the expansiveness of the heart?

Questioner: let’s say I ask you about Rumi and you tell me Rumi started a movement and he preached for inner peace and created a new movement based on peace and a connection with god than you tell me a poem of his it would have more meaning than if you say Rumi said this ___

Questioner: you don’t need a lot of info just enough to increase or encourage an individual to learn if they interested also good way to bring community tighter

DaveFromtheBlog: Again people are called to be Sufis, Something happens somewhere along the way and there is a call we spend some time figuring out what that call is , that stage can be referred to as seeking. During the time when we are seeking and figuring what this call in our heart is we end up doing in some cases a lot of research – depending on the person. In other cases like for some people I know they don’t need or care or want to hear about Rumi, they are just drawn there like bees are towards a flower.

DaveFromtheBlog: for you, you would like some background information some history to know that this
DaveFromtheBlog: isn’t bullshit some rinky-dinky thing. I’m sure you need to know also that we are not going to serve Kool Aid like Jim Jones

DaveFromtheBlog: I should say that regular Kool Aid is good for your health. Ample amounts of vitamin C. Tons of Flavor

Persecution
Questioner: why would people die to be Sufi
Questioner: I am sure Sufi faced persecution
DaveFromtheBlog: sure
DaveFromtheBlog: still do
DaveFromtheBlog: to this day
Questioner: right

DaveFromtheBlog: how can you understand logically with the mind why someone would risk his life? Plus most of the people like Hallaj died because as a Sufi they did some things which are objectionable to literally minded people.

DaveFromtheBlog: Hallaj was a Sufi who was martyred for saying Anal haqq I am the truth
Questioner: Anal Haqq means I am the truth
DaveFromtheBlog: to understand why he did that we would have to experience his mystical state of intoxication
DaveFromtheBlog: yeah in Arabic

Stillness and silence, then random speech
The knowledge intoxication annihilation.

Earth then fire, then light
Coldness, then shade, then sunlight

Thorny road, then a path, then the wilderness
River then ocean then shore

Contentment, desire then love
Closeness, union, intimacy

Closing then Opening then obliteration
Separation, togetherness and longing

Signs for those of real understanding
Who find this world of little value
   – Mansur al-Hallaj

Questioner: ok so my question is what is his truth?
DaveFromtheBlog: You have to experience it a state of rapture and ecstasy

Questioner: what would make me want to?
DaveFromtheBlog: I don’t know, I don’t want to especially as I didn’t become a dervish to have Hallaj’s experience. Who said anything about wants or needs or desires?  If you can here to experience the states, and not for the one who grants them, then you won’t find anything only your own illusions come back to you to roost.

DaveFromtheBlog: personally I came because I was called. You can read also of Junaid of Baghdad who never uttered anything in ecstasy? For each Sufi/darvish/seeker it’s different

Questioner: Ok so you were called there how you know the principals are true how do you know it was a calling and not you read something and say this is cool I want to know more?

DaveFromtheBlog: I would have to say that the way I know isn’t through the mind or logic. I know because once I came in the doors, once I saw the sheikh I felt something Intense I haven’t felt before

Questioner: So someone says he had a vision of Jesus so he went to Christian churches if I have a vision of lucky charms should I bow to all general mills boxes

Questioner: what was your calling that leads you to believe that Sufi is the way for you?
DaveFromtheBlog: it’s like falling in love. What is it that made me fall in love with my wife? I can’t put my finger on it. I can name features like her sense of humor.

O Lord
we appear like
desparate lovers
and in our heart
We are sleep-soiled
Our breasts full of Fire
Our eyes full of water
Sometimes we burn
In the fire of our hearts
Other times we are drowned in tears
    ~Sheikh abdullah Ansari of Herat

DaveFromtheBlog: When I met my shaikh I felt such a deep feeling of love in the mystical sense I cannot say what it is same when I meditate, etc

Questioner: to care for a person is different than believing it is way to God especially coz you are a person of fact and experiences
DaveFromtheBlog: that ‘feeling’ again I stress is a mystical one, and within it one knows with one’s heartagain in the realm of love facts, the path the future all of that is meaningless

DaveFromtheBlog: and it’s not caring for him like I want to take him on a date or I want to put him in a wheelchair and help with groceries

Questioner: so let’s say if I walk into Sufi house and feel intense feeling
DaveFromtheBlog: u may need to eat more fiber
DaveFromtheBlog: beef and beer diet isn’t good
Questioner: like a weight is lifted does that mean it is right for me?

DaveFromtheBlog: only you are the judge that’s the difficult part you have to sit with yourself and ask is this right for me? What is it I am feeling? Is this real?
DaveFromtheBlog: no one is there to tell you what is right and what is wrong
Questioner: unreal can be made real and vice versa
DaveFromtheBlog: You have to make at some point that leap of faith, like in indiana Jones, the last Grail one

Questioner: have you made that leap?
DaveFromtheBlog: if I didn’t I wouldn’t have gotten initiated
DaveFromtheBlog: nor would I be there for 2 years
DaveFromtheBlog: you have to make that leap
DaveFromtheBlog: first and then u go through with initiation and all that jazz

Questioner: so it is your belief without a doubt that Sufi is true path to God for you?
DaveFromtheBlog: I left belief behind long ago, I don’t believe. I know.
DaveFromtheBlog: Belief is a drink for kids, like Yoohoo choclate milk
Questioner: so are you doing everything you can to live that life style within reason

DaveFromtheBlog: it’s not a life style Sufis/darvishes work we have families fun but are attentive while we do that of god and in that attentiveness <it goes both ways btw, from the person to god and from god to the person> there is a communication

DaveFromtheBlog: but this already is a long distance from the shore or anything that can be known through measurement, logic and it doesn’t mean I hear voices in my head telling me feed that stray dog some bread or give this person a hug or eat some cornbread and make some grits lol though that sounds quite tasty at the moment

Tags: Abdullah Ansari of Herat, becoming a darvish, finding, Food For Thought, Ibn Arabi, Information Before Opinion, Inspiration For Today, Mansur al-Hallaj, Seeker after truth, seeking, Series on the Blog, Spiritual path, Spirituality, sufi poetry, Sufis of Antiquity, Sufism